Ah c'mon. Why is this news? Romney has lied about EVERYTHING. Don't you know he is running for LIAR IN CHIEF?
jonathan said...
Have you thought about this in terms of market theories?
One idea is that there is a marketplace for information and that more players, more information not only generates more "information" but acts as a corrective which encourages better information. This is a version of the idea that markets are beneficial; it takes the idea of market optimization and adds to it the kind of qualitative outcome proponents of market theories say are the natural result.
In contrast there is the idea that bad drives out good. Advertising for false medical remedies didn't go away until they were regulated, etc.
Looking at what's been happening, it looks like political advertising is more like medical remedies than what proponents of markets hope. There is a benefit in lying. Or at least a perceived benefit in lying and that's what counts. Lose the election and lie again the next time.
I'm going to remember how this has evolved whenever anyone says we should rely on markets to achieve an optimal result. We may want a result but that doesn't mean markets will generate what we want. This was the old rationale for regulation: unchecked, markets go their own way and that can be bad because markets generate outcomes that are optimal only in the sense they are generated by the market.
One idea is that there is a marketplace for information and that more players, more information not only generates more "information" but acts as a corrective which encourages better information. This is a version of the idea that markets are beneficial; it takes the idea of market optimization and adds to it the kind of qualitative outcome proponents of market theories say are the natural result.
In contrast there is the idea that bad drives out good. Advertising for false medical remedies didn't go away until they were regulated, etc.
Looking at what's been happening, it looks like political advertising is more like medical remedies than what proponents of markets hope. There is a benefit in lying. Or at least a perceived benefit in lying and that's what counts. Lose the election and lie again the next time.
I'm going to remember how this has evolved whenever anyone says we should rely on markets to achieve an optimal result. We may want a result but that doesn't mean markets will generate what we want. This was the old rationale for regulation: unchecked, markets go their own way and that can be bad because markets generate outcomes that are optimal only in the sense they are generated by the market.
denim said...
I hear that God is on our side, those of us who work righteousness. Acts 10:34:
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him."
And for lying politicians of any ilk, Psalm 50:
"...14 Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High, 15 and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor me.” 16 But to the wicked, God says: “What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? 17 You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you. 18 When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers. 19 You use your mouth for evil and harness your tongue to deceit. 20 You speak continually against your brother and slander your own mother’s son. 21 These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. 14 Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High, 15 and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor me.” 16 But to the wicked, God says: “What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? 17 You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you. 18 When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers. 19 You use your mouth for evil and harness your tongue to deceit. 20 You speak continually against your brother and slander your own mother’s son. 21 These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face."
"These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face."
If looks could stop a clock,
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/romney-says-hes-winning-its-a-bluff.html
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and works righteousness, is accepted with him."
And for lying politicians of any ilk, Psalm 50:
"...14 Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High, 15 and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor me.” 16 But to the wicked, God says: “What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? 17 You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you. 18 When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers. 19 You use your mouth for evil and harness your tongue to deceit. 20 You speak continually against your brother and slander your own mother’s son. 21 These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. 14 Sacrifice thank offerings to God, fulfill your vows to the Most High, 15 and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you will honor me.” 16 But to the wicked, God says: “What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? 17 You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you. 18 When you see a thief, you join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterers. 19 You use your mouth for evil and harness your tongue to deceit. 20 You speak continually against your brother and slander your own mother’s son. 21 These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face."
"These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face."
If looks could stop a clock,
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/romney-says-hes-winning-its-a-bluff.html
Dave said...
My only quibble with this premise: We've never had a "truth" era in US politics, so we can't have a "post-truth" era. Pick a supposed idyllic time when men were real men, and I'll give you a completely outrageously wrong political lie that formed the centerpiece of a party agenda.
Oupoot said...
Only in the US. Freedom of speech is critical for democracy and should be protected. But most civilised countries have placed limits to this right precisely so that they remain civilised.
Mano Philips said...
My comment on Dana Milbank's Washington Post column
"Romney goes off-road with the truth"
The Elephant in the Room
It was Romney who shipped thousands of Auto jobs to China; why is MSM silent on this.
Investigative Reporter Greg Palast on Truthout
"The truth? On June 1, 2009, the Obama administration announced that Detroit Piston's owner Tom Gores, GM and the US Treasury would buy back Delphi.The plan called for saving 15 of 29 Delphi factories in the US. Then the vulture funds pounced. The Nation discovered that, in the two weeks immediately following the announcement of the Delphi jobs-saving plan, Paul Singer, Romney's partner, secretly bought up over a billion dollars of old Delphi bonds for pennies on the dollar. Singer and partners now controlled the company - and killed the return of Delphi to GM. These facts were revealed in a sworn deposition of Delphi's Chief Financial Officer John Sheehan, confidential, but now released on the Web. Sheehan said, under oath, that these speculators threatened to withhold key parts (steering columns), from GM. This would have brought the auto maker to its knees, immediately forcing GM's permanent closure. The extortion worked. The government money that was supposed to go to save jobs went to Singer's hedge fund, Elliott Management Corporation and its partners, including the Romneys. Once Singer's crew took control of Delphi, they rapidly completed the move to China, sticking the US taxpayers with the bill for the pensions of the Delphi workers cut loose. Dan Loeb, a million-dollar donor to the GOP, who made three-quarters of a billion dollars off the legal scam, proudly announced that, once he and Elliott took control, Delphi kept "virtually no North American unionized labor." In all, three hedge funds run by Romney's million-dollar donors have pocketed $4.2 billion, a return on their "investment" of over 3,000 percent - all care of the US taxpayer. The Romneys personally earned a minimum of $15.3 million, though more likely $115 million - a range their campaign does not dispute.
Please see these:
Delphi Workers - Greg Palast - http://www.gregpalast.com/how-mitt-romney-profited-from-delphi-workers-misery/ Truthout - http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/12273-romney-company-shipped-every-single-delphi-uaw-job-to-china The Nation - Romney's Bailout Bonanza - http://www.thenation.com/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza#
"Romney goes off-road with the truth"
The Elephant in the Room
It was Romney who shipped thousands of Auto jobs to China; why is MSM silent on this.
Investigative Reporter Greg Palast on Truthout
"The truth? On June 1, 2009, the Obama administration announced that Detroit Piston's owner Tom Gores, GM and the US Treasury would buy back Delphi.The plan called for saving 15 of 29 Delphi factories in the US. Then the vulture funds pounced. The Nation discovered that, in the two weeks immediately following the announcement of the Delphi jobs-saving plan, Paul Singer, Romney's partner, secretly bought up over a billion dollars of old Delphi bonds for pennies on the dollar. Singer and partners now controlled the company - and killed the return of Delphi to GM. These facts were revealed in a sworn deposition of Delphi's Chief Financial Officer John Sheehan, confidential, but now released on the Web. Sheehan said, under oath, that these speculators threatened to withhold key parts (steering columns), from GM. This would have brought the auto maker to its knees, immediately forcing GM's permanent closure. The extortion worked. The government money that was supposed to go to save jobs went to Singer's hedge fund, Elliott Management Corporation and its partners, including the Romneys. Once Singer's crew took control of Delphi, they rapidly completed the move to China, sticking the US taxpayers with the bill for the pensions of the Delphi workers cut loose. Dan Loeb, a million-dollar donor to the GOP, who made three-quarters of a billion dollars off the legal scam, proudly announced that, once he and Elliott took control, Delphi kept "virtually no North American unionized labor." In all, three hedge funds run by Romney's million-dollar donors have pocketed $4.2 billion, a return on their "investment" of over 3,000 percent - all care of the US taxpayer. The Romneys personally earned a minimum of $15.3 million, though more likely $115 million - a range their campaign does not dispute.
Please see these:
Delphi Workers - Greg Palast - http://www.gregpalast.com/how-mitt-romney-profited-from-delphi-workers-misery/ Truthout - http://truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/12273-romney-company-shipped-every-single-delphi-uaw-job-to-china The Nation - Romney's Bailout Bonanza - http://www.thenation.com/article/170644/mitt-romneys-bailout-bonanza#
save_the_rustbelt said...
Stayed in my Toledo condo last night, a few miles from the Jeep plant.
Chrysler Jeep has in the past (until 2009) and will likely in the future produce Jeeps in China. The only promise by Marchionne (SP?) is that current Wrangler production will not be moved overseas.
The (Toledo) Blade has done better journalism on this than the national media.
Chrysler Jeep has in the past (until 2009) and will likely in the future produce Jeeps in China. The only promise by Marchionne (SP?) is that current Wrangler production will not be moved overseas.
The (Toledo) Blade has done better journalism on this than the national media.
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